Cara Moriwaki: Church and English Assistant

Hello!

In the past month, I have been meeting many more Japanese people through church!  One of the people I talk to often at church helped me to contact the leader of a Bible study circle at Doshisha, so I have been able to go to two of their meetings so far.  At the meetings, which are on Friday afternoons, we read a passage from the Bible and answer questions from a worksheet.  I bring my own Bible in English, but I still have trouble understanding the conversations because the vocabulary is difficult and they get deep, but I’ve learned that I don’t have to understand everything to enjoy myself!  The most important thing for me is this chance to meet many different people in Japan.  One of the girls who attends this circle regularly is not Christian, but she is interested in reading the Bible and learning about Jesus.  Even though I don’t always understand and don’t often contribute to the conversation, they have been very accepting of me.  By going to these meetings, I have learned a lot of different vocabulary and have been able to work on my listening comprehension, which has really taught me to make the most of any difficult situation!

For the last two church services that I went to, a lot of things happened!  We had communion!  Because it was very much like any other communion, I felt at home, and as though I have been going to this church for a significant amount of time, instead of just visiting.  I got to eat lunch with everyone afterwards, too!  The following week, I got to watch two girls get baptized.  After a group of the younger people sang songs to congratulate them, the two girls gave their testimonies.  Although, again, I couldn’t always understand what they were saying, I could still feel their emotions as they told us about their spiritual journeys.  I’m very happy that I had the chance to witness these girls take such an important step in their lives.

I’ve found that, at least at church and at the Bible study circle, Japanese people are not very different from Americans in their customs.  Just like the people I met at churches that I have attended in the United States, people here have been very inviting and patient with me.  Recently, I have had to go to church by myself, but I’ve learned that if I have even just a little bit of confidence in myself, I can have a lot of amazing experiences!  It is also thanks to the many people that I have met for very warmly welcoming me into the church community.    Despite my KCJS A-class status, I can still connect with many people!  Matthew 17:18 “I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there’ and it will move.  Nothing will be impossible for you.”

At Kamigyou Intermediate School, I have continued to help students with their English competitions.  There were two competitions, one which was for recording the story on a tape to be submitted, and the other for which the students had to perform their speech with arm motions.  Within one week, I saw that the students had improved in their intonation, pronunciation, and energy in their movements.  I remember that the school’s Vice Principle asked a student to do her best in one of the competitions, which made me realize that these students are pressured to represent their school as best they can.  Their determination to do their best for themselves and for their school is inspiring, and makes me want to ganbaru at Japanese, too!

Twice, I have had to casually converse with a couple of girls who were very shy about speaking.  Although the students are not shy about reading aloud their passages, they are not comfortable with normally speaking English.  Unlike my language teachers who speak to me in their foreign language, the English teacher here usually only speaks Japanese to her students.  I’m not sure if the emphasis on reading rather than speaking is a good thing because one of the people I met at church said that even though he studied English since he was little, he cannot say anything in English.  Well, in the end, I let the students speak mostly in Japanese to me, but I’ve realized that sometimes, it is more important for them to enjoy English rather than feel stressed out about it.

With only a few more weeks here, I want to make the rest of my limited time here as meaningful as possible by meeting more people and deepening my relationships with the people I have met!

Calum Galt: LGBT Groups (G・Front Kansai and Gradations)

This semester I decided to try to involve myself with the local LGBT scene by participating in both G・Front Kansai, a region-wide group that appeals to all ages and demographics, and Gradations, a much smaller student group based at Doshisha University. I decided to do this for both intellectual and personal reasons. My major is women’s studies, and I have a particular interest in issues of sexuality and gender, especially in Japan, as it provides an extreme point of comparison to Western conceptions of sex and gender. I wanted to experience the way queer people live in Japan, if only vicariously, by becoming involved with them socially. Personally, as a gay man, I also wanted to see what my Japanese counterparts were like and to become more or less accepted (even as a token gaijin). My experiences this semester have been a mixed bag, some meeting my hopes and some falling short.

Unlike my senpai, Adam Roberts, who did the same activities as me, I found Gradations rather then G・Front Kansai to be the more enjoyable group, perhaps because we wanted different things from our groups. Having said that, I share many of the same objections he had to both circles. The lack of events, the low participation rates, and the many awkward silences and palpable feeling of being separate from the group put me off quite a bit. Any gains I’ve made in getting close to my circle have been gradual, especially considering the few opportunities I’ve had to meet with people. I’ve focused almost entirely on Gradations, as  the events are more geared towards college-age students and thus involve my peers. It also helps that events are on mostly on or near to campus. In contrast, I found G・Front’s events awkward because of the age gap between me and the few members I’ve encountered. The distance I had to travel to Osaka and the awkwardness of the meetings put me off and I didn’t go back after my first few attempts. Gradations, not without its awkwardness, was still friendlier that G・Front, especially after people realized that I can in fact speak Japanese.

Gradations events consisted of 飲み会 and ランチ会, or drinking parties and lunch meetings. The drinking parties were the most enjoyable because everyone was able to relax their inhibitions and have fun with everyone, whereas the lunch meetings were often awkward affairs with a very clearly split between nihonjin and gaijin, with regular members having conversations in small clusters and gaijin separated from the main group. I found this the most frustrating, and sometimes skipped lunch meetings because I preferred to eat with other friends in KCJS and have real conversation. I still have another semester, though, and I’m determined to involve myself more in Gradations and hopefully break down some barriers with the time I have left. I only wish that there were more activities and more participants, which I imagine could happen if the group weren’t so secretive (another point of frustration, but admittedly a necessary one). I may consider taking on a second CIP next semester (KIX or Kyodai’s LGBT group perhaps) in order to expand my opportunities for interacting with Japanese students.

カーラ・モリワキ:教会と英語のアシスタント

こんにちは!先月、日本の教会に初めて行きました。ショアさんにいい教会がどこにあったるかご存知か聞きました。北大路駅の近く京都福音自由教会に友達と一緒に行きました!教会のウェブサイトはhttp://www.eonet.ne.jp/~kyoto-efc/です。

まず賛美歌を歌って、祈ります。説教が全部日本語でしたが、やさしい女の人が翻訳してくださいました。教会はちょっと旧式で小さいですが、みんなはとてもやさしいです!サービスの後、教会のもっと若いメンバーが私たちに話しかけてくれました。たくさん親切な人と知り合えてよかったです。

一人でオーペンチャーチという教会のイベントに行きましたがさみしくありませんでした。その日、色々な活動がありました。フラを見たり、茶道を初めてしたりしました。ハワイから来たから、日本のクリスチャンのフラを見るのは面白かったです。とても楽しかったです。その後は台風と日本舞踊のクラスのせいで行けませんでしたが、もう一度行きたいです!

そして、上京中学校で学生の英語コンテストのために手伝っています。学生は声で選んだ読み物を音読しなくてはけません。毎週木曜日2:30から4:15ごろまで四人の学生の練習を手伝っています。みんなの英語はとても上手です!それからとてもかわいいです。毎週どんどん上手に英語を話せるようになっています。Yさんという女の子の話はブッダとカンダタについてです。Nさんという女の子の英語が一番上手です。学生がんばっています。やっぱり中学生が一番です!

カルム・ガルト:LBGTサークル グラデーションとG-Front関西

僕は今学期のCIP活動としてKCJSのアダム・ロバーツ先輩と同じG-Front関西とグラデーションというLGBTサークルに参加しています。G-
Frontとグラデーションはちょっと違いますので、説明します。G-Front関西の方は名前の通り関西地方のゲイ、レズビアン、バイセクシュアル、トランスジェンダーなど、ノンケの人々にも色々なイベントを行うサークルです。毎月、男向け、女向け、トランス向けのサロンというイベントを行っています。まだ行ったことがありませんが、サロンで決まった話題について話し合ったり、考えたり、面白い話をするそうです。サロン以外では、ビール工場やお寺などへ行ったりバーべキューとか色々な楽しい活動を行うそうです。まだ行ったことないんですが、楽しみにしています。

グラデーションというサークルはG-Frontと同じようにLGBTの人々のためのサークルですが、G-Frontとちょっと違います。まず、グラデーションはLGBTの人々だけのサークルです。なぜかというと、自分がゲイなどということは他のノンケの人に知られたくない方がかなり多いし、LGBTだけのグループなら皆は安心ということです。そうじゃなければ、参加する人々の数が減るかもしれません。僕にとって、皆が参加できればいいと思うけど、グラデーションの皆さんのプライパシーのためだし、日本の文化はアメリカと違うし、この規則が理解できます。活動もちょっと違います。グラデーションは毎週皆が一緒に昼ご飯を食べるランチ会を行っています。そして、時々飲み会や京都観光などのイベントを行います。今まで飲み会は一つしかなかったんですが、本当に楽しかったです。これからグラデーションの皆さんとの色々な楽しいイベントを楽しみにしています。

Anuj Patel: Kyodai Research

For my CIP, I had the chance to work in the Funahashi research lab at Kyoto University. To be honest, I was doubtful that the opportunity would come together at all. Three months is a fairly short period of time to contribute, and I certainly know nothing about animal research. Nonetheless, Dr. Funahashi exceeded my expectations immediately, not only by replying to my email but even inviting me to observe an experiment the very next week. Particularly because I also work as an RA in a lab back at home, I was excited about getting the chance to see what a lab in Japan would be like. Since I also didn’t have much experience with monkey research, I was also particularly excited about seeing these methods in use.

My main concern was that I would not have many opportunities to actually interact with my professor and the researchers in the lab, as everyone was fairly busy with their work. Moreover, without too much time or significant training, the number of things that I could actually help with were fairly limited. In the beginning, this is exactly what happened. After my initial tour of the lab, my main task was printing graphs. A lot of graphs. On top of that, I occasionally missed the memo when my professor went to conferences, and got locked out from the lab once. It wasn’t exactly the ideal opportunity to participate in society.

However, as time went on and my routine began to settle, I started to find excuses to talk with the other people in the lab. It would generally start with someone asking me if I wasn’t bored, printing graphs all day, and then the discussion would continue from there. I was finally able to have conversations! I got to hear about all sorts of topics, ranging from the added difficulty of having to publish scientific papers in English, to comments on Kyoto and Japan in general. When I brought back omiyage from Ise (which in and of itself made me feel a little bit more like a part of the gro up), we had a conversation about how many schools will go there as a class trip. As time went on, I also began to be able to contribute in more ways. I was able to help beyond printing graphs, and even got to help with the monkeys once. These sorts of experiences were not only exciting in their own right, but they also helped to create more opportunities to ask questions and speak with the other members of the lab.

This development took a fair amount of time, and it’s unfortunate that just as I begin to really start to make progress, I’m going to have to leave. I think a particularly large obstacle was having only a fairly small group of graduate students and my professor to interact with; apparently undergraduates don’t work as research assistants particularly often. I would have liked to meet more students, but given that Kyodai was on spring break, there also haven’t been any seminars or courses I could sit in on. (As a result, I’m glad that I also got to participate in KIX occasionally as well.) Overall, however, I think that my experience in the lab was a positive one. I got to maintain some sort of connection with neuroscience even while in Japan, and I got to get to know a group of interesting, friendly people.

Adam Roberts: G-Front Kansai, LGBT Support Circle

My spring semester CIP is, as I said before, working with G-Front Kansai, an organization dedicated to the support of LGBT people in the Kansai area and, by extension, Japan as a whole. At first, the circle was not what I had expected, but I soon came to appreciate the members’ standpoint, their limitations, and their strengths.

My experience with LGBT circles has mostly come from the brief exposure to the GSA that I had during my freshman year in college. Through these student organizations, I had come to expect a more activism-oriented approach to dealing with LGBT problems. However, when I participated in my first LGBT circle meeting here in Japan, I found something very different in the Doshisha LGBT circle. (This post is not about the Doshisha circle, but it is part of the experience.)

The Doshisha circle, for starters, was entirely closed and a complete secret. I am not sure how some of my fellow KCJSers initially discovered it, but I had to be invited by a member who was already in the circle in order to attend their lunch meeting. Although I was not sure what to expect when I arrived, I was simultaneously under- and overwhelmed. The lunch meeting was precisely that: the members were eating lunch together and chatting with each other. I expected some planned activities or discussion about sexuality to take place, but when I finally began engaging the members in conversation it was like pulling teeth to get them to speak about themselves or their experience as sexual minorities in Japan. It struck me that even in a meeting geared specifically towards lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgender people, some members were still uncomfortable with the idea of talking about the issues facing them. The conversations between individuals ranged from mundane to raunchy, but there was no apparent goal set for the circle.

I attended a few more meetings, and one day I asked the circle’s leader if some straight friends who were “friends to LGBT people” (I couldn’t conjure up the word for “supporters”) could come to one of the meetings, as they were interested in getting involved with the group. The leader talked in circles for a bit, said “chotto” about 100 times, and then said that they were not allowed because it was a group for gay people.

I was so frustrated that I never went back.

Jump ahead to January 2012, and I am looking for a new CIP. Fukai-sensei found G-Front Kansai on the internet and suggested that I attend. When I went to the first meeting with Lucia, we were instructed to wait at the bus platform at the station and call a phone number. A few minutes later, the circle’s leader came and met us at the platform, and we followed him through the streets of Osaka until we arrived at the small apartment in which the meetings were held. The first meeting went well – a straightforward explanation of what the organization did and how often, as well as collection of dues. I was somewhat overwhelmed and felt more than a little awkward about the language barrier, but after going to dinner with them I thoroughly enjoyed myself.

As my time in G-Front continued, however, I came to realize that many of the characteristics that I had found so frustrating in the Doshisha circle were present here as well. One example was the lack of conversation about activities, activism, or even just opinions on issues facing sexual minorities in Japan. I even felt awkward about asking their opinions on some broader issues, and some of the opinions they shared surprised me.

I questioned how organizations like the Doshisha circle and G-Front could keep themselves going with such small memberships (6 people was average attendance at the meetings I was able to attend), and what good these groups were doing when they had so few katsudou (though G-Front has a great deal more than the Doshisha circle).

At some point, it struck me that these groups are not focused on activism in the sense that we think of it in the West, mainly because the set of issues facing the LGBT community are different – in Japan, the potential repercussions of being outed could be considered much more severe than in America due to the emphasis on group membership. Once you’re different, you “can’t be in that group anymore.” I understood then that these groups, though they do engage in some activism, are more focused on creating a safe haven for those brave enough to come to the meetings. This also explained the (frankly un-)surprising amount of sexual banter that occurred at some of the meetings – there is no other place in the world where these people can completely bare themselves without fear of being ostracized.

Even though the passive nature of some of these groups frustrated me at the beginning, I was reminded how important it is to have these sorts of spaces for people to fully express themselves without fear of judgement. Being a gaijin (and therefore excluded from many of the experiences that Japanese people have), it took a longer time to perceive the rationale behind the groups’ natures. Most importantly, however, I realized that I had forgotten how difficult it is to be in the closet, and to feel that pressure on the other side of the door, keeping it shut.

Though I still believe that the ideal way for these groups to solve the problem of discrimination is to engage in political activism, I was reminded that treating the symptoms can be just as important as finding a cure.

カーヴァー・ルーシャ:日本のLGBTに関する調査

 今学期のCIP活動は私の卒業論文の研究の一環として、「参与観察」という方法論を用い、京都・大阪地域のレズビアン・ゲイコミュニティーのイベントに参加し、同性愛者として日本での生活について調査することである。高校四年生のとき以来、日本に住む日系ブラジル人の状況を初めて聞いたことがきっかけとなり、移民・部落・LGBTの人などの日本の社会的マイノリティに深い興味を持っている。去年、東アジア研究学部の学生のための個別指導クラスを受け、マスコミが与える日本人による外国人犯罪に対する恐怖心への影響力についての期末レポートを書いた。そして、今年、KCJSの春学期に自分で決めるテーマに基づいて独学ができることおよび日本に住んでいる状況を機会として生かし、来年の卒業論文に先んじて、実地調査を行おうと決めた。日本に住むLGBTである人に関しての研究は非常に少なく、さらに大半の研究はゲイ男性に関するものが多いので、若い女性としてはこれまであまり研究されていない日本のレズビアンコミュニティーを調査し、学界に意味ある貢献をするチャンスだと思い、日本の女性同性愛者の性的同一性の形成というテーマを選んだ。

まず気付いたことは、アメリカと比べ、日本に家族・職場・友達、つまりLGBTコミュニティー以外の知り合いにカミングアウトする人は非常に少ないのである。日本人のレズビアンに「あなたはいつかカミングアウトするつもりですか?」と聞いたら、「いや、絶対カミングアウトしない」とよく言われる。それはなぜなら、日本でLGBTである人の存在がよく認められていないとともに、やはり社会的な期待、とくに家族からの結婚することに対するプレッシャーが原因で、カミングアウトするのはなかなか難しいことである。しかし、カミングアウトしていないからこそ、一般的な日本人には自分の周りにLGBTである人がいないように見えるなので、結果として「日本にLGBTである人は存在していない」という考え方や社会に定着している既成概念が疑われることなく、結局、先述したカミングアウトしていない状況の原因になる社会的な期待が続き、いわゆる悪循環が繰り返される。


アメリカのLGBTのように、比較的にオープンに暮らせるが、同時によく憎悪犯罪の犠牲となるという両極端な状況より、日本に隠れているLGBTである人に対しての暴力事件の発生率が低いということを考えれば、日本の現在状況の方が安全に見えるかもしれないけど、自分のアイデンティティーの大事な一部を愛する人から隠すのはたしかにつらいと思う。今までの調査結果では、アメリカと日本との状況の格差が明らかに見えるのが一番面白い。調査を続け、色々な新しい経験をし、これから日本に住むLGBTコミュニティーについてもっと学ぶことを楽しみにしている。

アダム・ロバーツ:G-Front関西、LGBTサークル

今学期、G-Front関西というLGBTのサークルに参加しています。G-Frontとは、1994年からずっとゲイ・レズビアン・バイセクシュアル・トランスジェンダー、つまり性的少数者に対する差別に対して戦って来たサークルで、毎月定例の会議が6つあります。「Men’s サロン」とは、ゲイの男性やサポートをしたい人が集まって、色々な話題について会話が出来る所で、毎月第1週の土曜日です。第4週の日曜日は「トランスサロン」、つまりトランスジェンダーの為の「Men’s サロン」みたいな活動です。読書会プロジェクト、サークル説明会なども定期的にあります。そして毎月1回「UP&UP」という会報誌を印刷していて、それを登録したメンバーに発送しています。

G-Frontのメンバーのプライバシーを守る為に場所は秘密ですが、大阪で活動をしています。毎週1回大阪へ行って、1つの活動に参加してみています。

誰と一緒に活動するかというと、これもプライバシーを守る為にはっきり伝えられないんですが、リーダーみたいな人と他のサークルの先輩の人と一緒に活動しています。他の人は説明会などに好奇心から来て、サークルに入るかどうか決める事もあります。私は参加する時、サークルの人と会ってLGBT、日常の事について会話が出来ます。そして会議の後時々(お金があれば)メンバーと一緒にレストランとかバーとかへ食べに行ったりします。

アヌジ・パテル:認知神経科学の研究

僕の専門は認知神経科学ですが、これはどのように認知や心理などが脳から生み出せるかに関する学問です。もちろん、KCJSでは、これについての授業がとれませんが、日本にいる間、日本の研究制度も体験したかったので、CIPとして京都大学で行っている研究グループでボランティアをしようと思いました。

そこで、京大の認知情報学の船橋新太郎教授に連絡しました。船橋先生はサルを用いた研究をしていらっしゃいます。先生に研究所を見学させてもらい、実験を見せてもらいました。現在、サルの大脳(詳しく言うと前頭前皮質)に刺した電極で神経細胞の活動を記録していらっしゃいます。

まだ大学生だし、研修など受けていないので、データ解析しか出来ませんが、研究室に行くのは本当にいい機会だと思います。そして、先生や大学院生は優しいし、研究室にみんあ集まっているので、日本語でのお喋りも出来ます。ブラウン大学で、研究した事ありますが、アメリカでの研究と比べると、日本の研究はどう違うかに興味があります。

Nicolas Parada: Rugby with the "Freeks"

Kyoto “Freeks”

            As I wrote in my previous blog entry, rugby has been an enormous part of my life for the past 6 years.  Since high school, I have trained and played almost religiously, and with Japan’s growing notoriety as a great Rugby nation, I couldn’t pass up the opportunity of playing the game I love overseas.  I was excited to compare my skills and knowledge of the game with my Japanese counterparts, perhaps improve my game, and keep fit for when I return to my team at home.  These original goals were personal, and rugby oriented.  While the CIP portion of the program is meant to help better immerse students in the language and culture of Japan and the student’s immediate community, I initially didn’t look at this opportunity past the point of staying fit and getting a few more games under my belt.  After more than 3 months practicing and playing with the “Kyoto Freeks” (yes, it is misspelled on purpose…or perhaps not?), however, I have realized that my CIP experience has yielded some valuable experiences.

Kyoto Freeks is a men’s rugby club comprised of mostly men in their 30’s. There are a few younger, and quite a few older, but all are working adult men. My friend Garrett (also from Amherst, studying in the Nichibun program) and I were the youngest members of the team. Most of the players on the team have extensive rugby experience, and while Japanese ruggers aren’t known for their size, I could definitely tell that many of the guys had been playing since middle school.

The first few weeks of practice consisted of joint sessions of the Freeks and the Doshisha High School Rugby Football Club at the high school grounds. Perhaps the first thing I noticed was the absolutely horrid condition of the field. The last time I played rugby was on the lush, soft, green fields of Massachusetts, offering a gentle cushion when being slammed into the ground by the opposition. But here, at my first practice, I looked upon a rectangular patch of sand. Not dirt. Dirt would suggest that there might have once been grass here, or that grass could foreseeably grow again in the future. Underneath the top layer of coarse sand was hard, unyielding, packed earth. I heard from a team member early on that the only other foreign player on the team was out for the season because he had snapped his collarbone simply falling over on the concrete-like pitch.  To my surprise, these kinds of fields are the norm in Japan. The only fields with grass are larger stadiums style grounds that a reserved year round for match days.  None of the Freeks or the high school players complained as we took the field, and I resigned to accept it just as they did.  But I came to realize that the field was the last thing these players were concerned about.  I’m convinced that if practice was held in a parking lot, they wouldn’t offer a single word of complaint. This was the first glimpse I got at the amazing work ethic of Japanese players, and as I would come to recognize, the no-nonsense work ethic that permeates all of Japanese society.

Something else that caught my attention was the unexpectedly clean standard of play I saw and experienced. Rugby is known worldwide as a rough man’s sport, full of hard hits that sometimes escalate into fights. But what I saw here was a calm that is rare in the states. There were moments where I thought a temper might rise to a boiling point, but the game always continued on without incident. It was refreshing to see the REAL “gentleman’s game” played as it should be. The referees were extremely professional as well, and all the players on both teams offered the referees the respect they were due. The discipline of Japanese players is second to none!

 

Although it was difficult to notice at first, I gradually became aware of clear senpai-kouhai relationships within the team. Unlike on many American teams, where the better players receive greater voice and respect, the kouhai on the team were quick to carry bags, shag balls, prepare the field, clean up trash, and poor beer for their senpai during nomikai. It was difficult for me to find a place within these dynamics. As a guest and a (large) foreigner, I was deferred to with much respect by all the members of the team, despite my efforts to lower myself appropriately.   Most players originally thought that my age was closer to 31, not 21, which further complicated things.  Many players had trouble with their interactions with me. The language barrier was of course a powerful issue, but I think there was more to it. I have a hunch that part of the reason I was shown such unyielding respect was because my host father, a 60 year old senpai of the club and former Doshisha rugger, introduced me.  3 of the more influential players on the team were also very close friends with my host father’s daughter and son, which made their giri to my host father even greater. As such, perhaps they felt a need to give me particular attention.  Yet, I think it more likely that the kindness and respect I was shown was reflective upon my gaijin status, as removed from their uchi group, thus requiring me to be deferred to with greater emotional/social distance.  In the end, I decided to continue using humble language and conduct with all the Freeks members.

By the end, my team mates became more comfortable with using Japanese with me, rather than attempting to communicate in hand gestures and broken English. Though I sometimes had to ask them to use less kansaiben, many players started to joke with me and I really started to feel like part of the team, especially after games with all the typical hugging and high-fiving.  My Japanese got a good amount of practice as well. Through exchanging emails with the team captain, communicating with players on the field, and even doing a couple of one night homestays with my captain’s parents the night before some early morning games in Nara, I got to use Japanese more and see more of Japanese family life.

It was a shame to have so little time with the Kyoto Freeks. Just as I felt I was becoming a real member, my time has run out. I hope to return to Japan on the JET program, and perhaps I will be able to pick up where I left off with my new teammates, or at the very least stay in contact with them and visit.